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Making mockery of natural law

June 5, 2013

To the editor: Well, it looks like lots of hard work, perseverance, and money to buy the media and lobby the politicians has finally paid off for homosexual activist....

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(35)

Zorromcgee

Jun-21-13 9:30 AM

MT-thank for proving me right-you have shown without any chance for doubt that you are incapable of accepting facts and your ego will not let you admit when you are wrong. That is very sad. Your credibility is gone, for a man who cannot process information and admit his mistakes, has no standing in a debate.

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MichaelT

Jun-21-13 7:48 AM

Claims and pseudo-science are not the same thing as proof.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-20-13 9:10 AM

MT-you have been proven wrong on each point-you specifically said "sexual activity between members of the same sex does violence to the law of nature" And I showed that behavior tht occurs naturally cannot be against the laws of nature. is your gigantic ego so fragile that to admit when you are wrong would shatter it? Or perhaps nothing in your christian education covers admitting mistakes.

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MichaelT

Jun-19-13 7:02 PM

The apostle Paul states that sexual activity between one man and another is "against nature." He says that those who engage in it have "set aside the natural use of the woman." So, for those of us who accept the words of the Bible as the final answer to life's biggest questions, homosexual behavior is unnatural.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-19-13 3:17 PM

MT-you stated "In this way sexual activity between members of the same sex does violence to the law of nature." I pointed out that ther is same sex behaviour in nature therby proving you wrong. You stated the info I used was from a pro-homosexual website. So I then pointed out a report of same sex behavior in penquins from 1911. Again proving you wrong. You then wanted examples of animals mating for life who mate with the same sex-again I provided a legitimate expample again proving you wrong. Perhaps someone with more character would admit when they are wrong. But it is impossible to debate someone who refuses to accept facts or admit when they are wrong.

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MichaelT

Jun-19-13 12:04 AM

Okay, same-sex advocates on this site have repeatedly said that homosexuality is genetic, that it is not a chosen behavior but part of the person's makeup from birth.

Now they are saying that we can take behaviors that we observe in the animal kingdom and equate them with human homosexual behavior.

If these things are so, one would expect that "homosexuals" in the animal kingdom would not exhibit any sexual desire for the opposite sex. If these animals are "born that way", then you would think that they would focus their mating on members of their own sex.

But that isn't what we see among the animals. The black swans referred to in ZM's last comment engage in sexual relations with members of the opposite sex. The fact that some of them end up having companions of the same sex does not mean they are "homosexual" in the same sense as the term is used among humans.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-18-13 1:03 PM

MT-Black Swans-An estimated one-quarter of all pairings are homosexual, mostly between males. they mate for life-now of course you will explain that this information is part of the "pro-homosexual agenda". And you never explained how the observations in 1911 of same sex behavior in penguins was done by a "pro-homosexual group"

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MichaelT

Jun-15-13 1:34 AM

ZM: Among those animal species that mate for life, have you ever heard of any that "mated" with a member of their own sex?

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Zorromcgee

Jun-08-13 8:08 AM

MT-Just to clarify, when George Murray Levick observed same sex behavior in penquins in Antarctica in 1911 and called it depraved-he was biased and pushing a homosexual agenda? And Pardo is a poor choice. You arguemnts continue to grow weak and deserate.

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MichaelT

Jun-08-13 12:05 AM

ZM: We could go back and forth ad infinitum on whether or not your claim of homosexual behavior in animals is scientific. I am convinced that the claims of homosexuals in this area are a case of a biased group imposing their pre-conceived conclusions on observations that in no way support those conclusions.

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MichaelT

Jun-08-13 12:02 AM

Or how about this one:

Biologist Bruce Bagemihl, whose book Biological Exuberance: Animal Homosexuality and Natural Diversity was cited by the American Psychological Association and the American Psychiatric Association in their amici curiae brief in Lawrence v. Texas and is touted as proof that homosexuality is natural among animals, is careful to include a caveat:

"Any account of homosexuality and transgender animals is also necessarily an account of human interpretations of these phenomena....We are in the dark about the internal experience of the animal participants: as a result, the biases and limitations of the human observer--in both the gathering and interpretation of data--come to the forefront in this situation.....With people we can often speak directly to individuals (or read written accounts)....With animals in contrast, we can often directly observe their sexual (and allied) behaviors, but can only infer or interpret their meanings and motivations."

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MichaelT

Jun-08-13 12:00 AM

ZM: You claim that you have "science" on your side. I can claim that, too. How about a few quotes:

Despite the "homosexual" appearances of some animal behavior, this behavior does not stem from a "homosexual" instinct that is part of animal nature. Dr. Antonio Pardo, Professor of Bioethics at the University of Navarre, Spain, explains:

"Properly speaking, homosexuality does not exist among animals.... For reasons of survival, the reproductive instinct among animals is always directed towards an individual of the opposite sex. Therefore, an animal can never be homosexual as such. Nevertheless, the interaction of other instincts (particularly dominance) can result in behavior that appears to be homosexual. Such behavior cannot be equated with an animal homosexuality. All it means is that animal sexual behavior encompasses aspects beyond that of reproduction."

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Zorromcgee

Jun-07-13 9:49 PM

MT- so how is that violence against the laws of nature? if it is done in nature how can it be against natures laws? And you did not mention black swans, dolphins or american bison-are those animals just homone driven? Which by the way so are you. And where is your proof of pro-homosexual science sites? And are you saying that the many scientists from the 1700's to today that determined the earths age,all conspired with each other to politicize science and embarrass the church?

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EaglesFan

Jun-07-13 8:30 PM

I see a lot of "hate filled" comments about Christians. That should be censored before any other comments made. I suggest we censor neither.

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EaglesFan

Jun-07-13 8:27 PM

How many of you picked up your applications yet?

Since Humans, Dolphins and Bonobos are the only known species that have sex for pleasure, you cannot bring other species who have sexual involvement with same sex partners. I believe that it is purely out of instinct to reproduce that they will stick it anywhere, including a chair leg.

Should we allow marriage to chair legs next?

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MichaelT

Jun-07-13 7:55 PM

ZM: It is true that animals sometimes simulate the act of breeding with members of their own sex. I'm sure many of us have seen one male dog attempt to do this to another.

This happens because the hormone-driven urge to reproduce is so strong that it is activated by the presence of another of their species, and it doesn't matter whether it's male or female.

When they do this, however, their action is not in harmony with the design of their sexual organs. Same-sex sexual activity is out of step with nature, whether done by animals or by humans.

By the way, if you have ever seen a dog attempt to do this to another dog, you will know that dog #2 does not welcome or cooperate with dog #1's ideas.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-07-13 7:14 PM

So tell me-when religion is politicized, is it no longer the objective pursuit of truth. But it becomes a weapon used to compel acceptance of a pre-determined political objective. And please MT tell me which of the sources I listed were politicized. Your arguments are becoming vague and weak-those pesky facts just keep getting in the way!

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MichaelT

Jun-07-13 6:53 PM

When science is politicized, it is no longer the objective pursuit of truth. It becomes a weapon used to compel acceptance of a pre-determined political objective.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-07-13 6:31 PM

MT-I can certainly understand your refusal to debate facts that disagree with your world view. Those pesky scientists just keep poking holes in your theories. So are the sites that say the earth is billions of years old pro-gay too?

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Zorromcgee

Jun-07-13 4:39 PM

MT-no my faith in science was too strong-And "pro-homosexual site" Like National Geographic? or wikipedia? Or UC Riverside? or Yale Scientific? Time Magazine? NBC news? So tell me if god created animals that participate in gay behavior are they sinning?

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MichaelT

Jun-07-13 4:14 PM

ZM: I don't intend to get into debating this with you. You are completely convinced that homosexual behavior is perfectly natural, and I am completely convinced that it is unnatural. Your "facts" are provided by a pro-homosexual site, and you accept them uncritically because you want them to be true. I won't even try to suggest that there may be other explanations for the phenomena to which you refer. Your faith in the prophets of the homosexual gospel is too strong.

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Zorromcgee

Jun-07-13 3:52 PM

MT-there are over 1500 species of animals that exhibit same sex behaviour-which natural law are they breaking? 2 examples are the mallard and american bison-so should they be arrested for violating natural laws?

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MichaelT

Jun-07-13 3:26 PM

JR: The natural law to which Mr. Dietz refers is the fact that male and female sexual organs are obviously designed to complement one another in sexual activity. Sexual activity between male and male or female and female set aside nature's design. In this way sexual activity between members of the same sex does violence to the law of nature.

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JReader

Jun-07-13 1:47 PM

Michael,

I agree I didn't find this letter hateful in it's intent. Willfully ignorant in it's approach to support a very narrowly consrtued Christian based worldview, it is certainly all that, but not hateful.

What I find perplexing is the refernce to "natural law" and how it is somehow being violated. When I think of natural law I think of the strong preying on the weak so in that regard I think we are a better society for at least in some instances breaking "natural law".

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Twizzy

Jun-07-13 10:23 AM

Not sure if that letter could have conflicted with itself anymore than it does . . .

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