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National Day of Prayer

April 28, 2013

To the editor: One of the things that makes our nation great is the faith of its people expressed in prayer....

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GrandmaD

May-05-13 3:37 PM

:( :( :( I always want to spell publicly wrong. Sorry.

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GrandmaD

May-05-13 9:24 AM

Bindle - I did visit the FFRF website, & it only upset me more. The FFRF and Christmas was enough to make me jump to conclusions. I almost forgot that one of their major goals is to replace Christmas (a federal declared holiday) with a universal Winter Solstice Day.

The FFRF's belief is non-belief. Why is it okay for them to publically impose their belief of non-belief on everyone? God bless everyone, believers & non-believers alike. You may not want His blessings, but I want Him to give them to you.

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GrandmaD

May-04-13 7:00 PM

Oh, I should add that, yes, the Quran (the spelling used) was introduced.

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GrandmaD

May-04-13 6:14 PM

Just curious ..................... We have friends who moved to Texas about 10 years ago who tune in to this Journal site. They have never commented on anything. They said they had an issue about 4 or 5 years ago about Islam being introduced into their public school system where they reside.

At that time, the word was that our government allots monies to a University Middle East Studies Center. This center offers a federal seal of approval Middle East Studies curriculum to K-12 students in America's public schools.

They said they were told that the FFRF, as well as the ACLU consider this culture teachings. They, also, say that the FFRF only fights to remove anything Christian.

Does anyone know anything about this? Is is for real?

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MichaelT

May-03-13 9:05 PM

The point is, the US Constitution says nothing about whether city or state gov'ts may engage in any activities related to religion; it only speaks about the federal gov't. What a state does is up to the state. (At least that's what the Constitution itself says. What the members of the Supreme Court has said is another matter.)

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mnsotn

May-03-13 8:15 PM

Once again, supporting a menorah at city hall would endorse one religion. National Day of Prayer does not.

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MichaelT

May-03-13 6:35 PM

Bindle: Yes, our tax dollars pay for city and state gov't. But it is a large jump in logic to say that since tax dollars pay for something, therefore state and local gov'ts may not do anything that encourages or supports religious behavior or thinking.

State constitutions define what state and local governmental entities may or may not do when it comes to matters related to religion. One of the rights reserved to the states by the ninth and tenth amendments of the US Constitution is freedom of religious expression.

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GrandmaD

May-03-13 6:08 PM

Bindle - I look at it as my right as an American to keep the traditions that myself, my parents, my grandparents, & all those before them have always known & loved for years.

Allah, I don't believe, can be on display, according to Islam law. The Koran has been at certain times in certain libraries, as I understand (didn't check it out.) My crazy nomad cousin got one free in front of a public library in Orange County, CA about a year & a half ago. I wonder if the FFRF protests anything like that - doubt it.

You are correct. Tax dollars do pay for all government services, some which go against my beliefs, but I still have to pay for them. I just want to keep what has always been a part of my heritage, & it makes me angry that it's being taken away.

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Bindle

May-03-13 5:42 PM

City and state gov'ts are still run by tax $$. Same rules apply. Would you be ok paying for a Menorah at City Hall? Or at the State Capitol? Gov't on any level has no business promoting any religion. They have enough to do. I encourage everyone to visit the Freedom from Religion foundation website to learn what they are about before jumping to conclusions.

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MichaelT

May-03-13 3:53 PM

Bindle: City hall is not part of the federal gov't. The words of the 1st Amendment are addressed to the federal gov't, not to state or city gov'ts. Is there some state law that you are referring to that would prohibit posting the 10 Commandments at city hall?

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Bindle

May-03-13 3:32 PM

GrandmaD...what rights are being taken away? The FFRF makes sure (among other things) that taxpayers money is not going towards religious displays on government property. That would include Christian, Muslim, Jewish etc. You do not have the right to post the 10 commandments at City Hall for instance as that is promoting Christianity. It is not saying Christianity is wrong or you should not believe in it. Tax dollars pay for all government services. If you'd be ok paying for a display of Allah, or parts from the Koran down at City Hall ...it amounts to the same thing.

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Auschlander06

May-03-13 12:13 PM

A presidential proclamation is a statement made on a matter of public policy but is widely dismissed as a means of creating public policy and is widely used on a ceremonial basis.

Please read the entire wikipedia entry.

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GrandmaD

May-03-13 10:41 AM

JReader - Sorry I never responded to your question from April 29th.

I see my faith based rights as the right to pray & worship, & yes, I am allowed to do that. I did it on the National Day of Prayer & hope we will be able to continue to observe this day.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation has scored many victories. They have succeeded in ending faith based prison programs, faith based mentoring for kids, faith based programs for homeless addicts, etc. They have succeeded in forcing cities & establishments to remove crosses, Nativity scenes, the Ten Commandments, etc.

They are a powerful group & continue to get their way at the expense of what the majority believes in & the good things that help people. Their rights prevail. Our rights don't. What is right about that?

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MichaelT

May-03-13 10:18 AM

Is there anyone else out there who would like to attempt to answer this question? For the sake of clarity, I'll repeat it again:

Were President George Washington and both houses of Congress acting contrary to the meaning of the Constitution when in 1789 Congress encouraged Washington to declare a national day of prayer and Washington complied? Did they, or did they not, understand the meaning of the 1st Amendment, which had been ratified in the previous year (1788)?

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MichaelT

May-03-13 10:08 AM

JR: Washington was elected President in 1788. The Thanksgiving Day proclamation was issued in the following year. Nov 26, 1789 was the first national Thanksgiving Day. History supports my point.

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JReader

May-03-13 9:41 AM

Michael,

Washington made his prayer proclamation ten years before he was president and eight years before our constitution was ratified. He was then general of the continental army. So his proclamation wasn't made as prsiddent and was done before the first amendment was even in existence. So, just was your point ?

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MichaelT

May-02-13 10:37 PM

Is there no one on the other side of this issue can answer my last question? Here it is again:

So would you say that President George Washington and both houses of Congress were acting contrary to the meaning of the Constitution when Congress encouraged Washington to declare a national day of prayer, and Washington complied? The 1st Amendment is the same today as it was at the adoption of the Constitution. Are you saying they didn't know what the 1st Amendment was all about?

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Ring2003

May-02-13 10:16 PM

Michael- he is a writer/educator. Considering your "expertize" on atheism I'm surprised you didn't know that. And it's beside the point anyway. It doesn't matter who he is and I only included his name as to not take credit for someone else's words. He makes a very valid point (freedom of religion/from religion need each other). What about it do you disagree with?

And regarding ignoring the constitution- you seem to be more than willing to do this when it comes to restricting the rights and pursuits of happiness of same-sex couples. Do you ever tire of talking out of both sides of your mouth?

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MichaelT

May-02-13 5:40 PM

JR: So would you say that President George Washington and both houses of Congress were acting contrary to the meaning of the Constitution when Congress encouraged Washington to declare a national day of prayer, and Washington complied? The 1st Amendment is the same today as it was at the adoption of the Constitution. Are you saying they didn't know what the 1st Amendment was all about?

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JReader

May-02-13 5:01 PM

Presidential proclamations by definition are used to set public policy. This differs greatly in substance and context when compared to a speech. A speech is delivered by a person (the president) and may include personal commentary includung their closely held beliefs. A proclamation, on the other hand, is only delivered by the president and represents the official stance of the federal government and all of its people.

Just because the president may make other proclamations doesn't excuse him from making one relating to the affirmative practice of religion. Our federal government has no purpose in promoting any religious practice even one as benign as prayer.

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Auschlander06

May-02-13 10:56 AM

This debate is preposterous and ill informed. 1. The National Day of Prayer is not an endorsement of any one faith, but rather an endorsement of prayer, which is not exclusive to any single religion. 2. There are many days of observance issued by presidential proclamation. Many that appeal to a much more narrow demographic than prayer, so let's not inflate the issuance of a presidential proclamation to official government endorsement or creation of any sort of state run church. 3. The christian faith has more aggressively organized events relating to the national day of prayer, but this has in no way discouraged or dissuaded any other faith in organizing their own events.

Please take some time and research different days of observance and the national day of prayer specifically before engaging any further in this argument.

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Integrity

May-02-13 10:33 AM

Where is the outrage when Pres. Obama gives speeches asking for Americans to pray after horrific events in this country? No one's on here talking about prayer endorsement by govt then. Maybe, in those instances, prayer is ok? Even if it's endorsed and asked for by our govt? Just wondering, since this is a black and white issue, obviously.

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JReader

May-02-13 10:03 AM

Michael,

You are the only one twisting things. There is absolutley nothing wrong with our founding fathers or any current government official practicing their religion. It is the institution of government that has no purpose in advocating or engaging in religious practices. There is no conflict or twisting of the first amendment in my previous statement.

The argument you put forward here is the same flawed argument you use to oppose same-sex marriage. Our government has no reason or purpose for defining marriage on purely religious grounds. It is not our government's place to define religion or it's practices for anyone in our country including those who wish not to practice any religion at all.

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mnsotn

May-01-13 11:22 PM

If you don't want to observe National Day of Prayer, then don't! I generally don't observe it. I also don't observe Presidents' Day, Columbus Day, MLK day or many other government holidays or whatever they choose to call them. Just because I don't observe them doesn't mean that I think the government shouldn't proclaim them. Quit being so **** uptite.

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mnsotn

May-01-13 11:21 PM

If you don't want to observe National Day of Prayer, then don't! I generally don't observe it. I also don't observe Presidents' Day, Columbus Day, MLK day or many other government holidays or whatever they choose to call them. Just because I don't observe them doesn't mean that I think the government shouldn't proclaim them. Quit being so d@me uptite.

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