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Foreign policy challenges

July 22, 2014

President Barack Obama has always preferred dabbling in domestic policy. It is apparent he doesn’t understand much about foreign relations....

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(39)

svensota

Jul-31-14 7:48 PM

JR:

Thank you for your gracious comments.

I'm supposed to tick you off. We're just a microcosm of what's going on all over the country: blue vs red.

I'll say one thing, I've learned a lot the past four years on this site. I'm always stunned by the ferocity by which people hold their views. Mine, of course, are always correct, but I've learned to appreciate some very well thought out arguments.

Enough of charm school.

Movies?

The Mrs. picks the show tonight and it will be a romantic comedy, "And So it Goes," with Michael Douglas and Diane Keaton (no doubt playing Annie Hall for the 38th time). I've already had a stern talk with myself to just shut up and enjoy the evening.

Svensota's latest pick? "Venus in Fur" directed by Roman Polanski. Truly weird and a hilarious spoof. My kind of picture.

Enjoy.

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JReader

Jul-31-14 11:54 AM

Sven:

Obama didn't lie. The Iraq war was a horrible thing. Never should have happened. Huge mistake. Bush deserves all the criticism you can muster for making the final decision for going to war. Bush bad. But, he didn't lie. And, congress said he "could" go to war. And many members of congress that said yes were Democrats. We made a mistake. We gave a guy with an itchy trigger finger the bullets and the gun. We let our emotions get the best of us. We were reeling after 9/11 and needed something to show the world we weren't going to take an attack on us lying down. We went to war in Iraq for all of the wrong reasons.

The only way we can insure this sort of thing doesn't happen again is to accept the responsibility we all played in making it happen. Until we do that it will most likely happen again.

You have any good recommendations on a movie to take the wife ?

Sorry about the stinky neighbor scenario - but sometimes you just tick me off so much...

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svensota

Jul-30-14 7:16 PM

Avoice:

You can believe whatever you want. But, 232 lies by Bush would be nearly impossible to exceed. And, President Obama "didn't have (whoopee) with that woman," either. So, he's a little behind his predecessors from the git-go.

Now.

Imagine if you walk out the door one day and get pelted by water falling out of the sky. Answer honestly and you just might make the leap.

Really. Think about it.

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svensota

Jul-30-14 4:39 PM

JR:

No...I'm calling you out. You're trying to defend Bush. You say you are not defending Bush but you are lying...er...making a false statement.

(Har, har, har, guffaw, snerk. Haw, haw, haw. Woo-boy, got ya' on that one!)

And...nice attempt at deflection on President Obama. Your ADHD must be kicking in. Stay on task, OK?

I, too, get your oversimplified view of the world.

Let's see, any more snarky comments I can throw back?

Oh, yes. Imagine you walk out the door one day and get pelted by a...

(What the...?)

-----------

JR, take the little woman to a movie and take a deep breath.

No kiddin'. I'm serious.

I always am.

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Avoice

Jul-30-14 4:25 PM

Sven, all I can tell you is when they count up the lies President Obama has told us over the eight years, Bush's number will be miniscule to what the number Obama has.

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JReader

Jul-30-14 3:48 PM

Sven,

I'm not defending Bush. I'm calling you out. It all goes back to accountability. When people like you say Bush lied it gives the Democrats who voted to go war their out. "Well it's not my fault I voted yes to invade Iraq because after all, Bush lied". Well the problem is he didn't lie. He made a decision based on the information he had at the time. It ended up being wrong - thus a false statement. Imagine you walk out the door one day and get pelted by water falling out of the sky. You say - "it's raining". Except, it's not because it's just your neighbor spraying you with his garden hose due to your poor personal hygiene. Is your "it's raining" statement a lie ?

I get your oversimplified view of the world. It's the same way Michael looks at same-sex marriage.

Did Obama lie, Sven ? Third time I've asked. Are you too chicken to answer ?

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svensota

Jul-30-14 11:43 AM

JR:

And...you don't seem to grasp that 98% of the country doesn't differentiate between "false statements" and "lies".

That's because 98% of the people are not lawyers...thankfully.

Most of the mainstream media that reported on The Center's report "cut to the chase" and used the term "lies" in their headlines. The Center was stuck with the lawyerly definition that you so giddily admire.

All you're doing is parsing. A cute trick, but in the end, your defense of Bush is ludicrous (and you know it, and about 300 million other people know it).

Bottom line: Bush and company lied 935 times and led the country into a disastrous war.

Apparently, you take some kind of pleasure in the outcome.

Why doesn't that surprise me?

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JReader

Jul-30-14 9:51 AM

Sven,

Why did the report use "false statement" rather than "lie" in their analysis ?

I'll cut to the chase for you. Because they couldn't prove that he did lie. You can contend all you want that Bush lied but it remains that - only a contention. You don't seem to grasp the difference here. I guess that is to be expected from the likes of a partisan sheep.

Nice attempt at deflection on Nixon. Your ADHD must be kicking in - stay on task OK ? You need to prove, not simply contend, that Bush lied. Another swing and miss for you.

Think this one over before you answer and maybe just maybe you may learn something - Did Obama lie or simply provide a false statement when he said that people could keep their current health plans ? Answer honestly and you might just make the leap.

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Avoice

Jul-29-14 10:42 PM

Sven, while your sources is questionable at times, I will give you some slack( at least it gives me an idea of the rhetoric they are using). I do hope you will send a note to your friend Nancy Pelosi to "get some smarts" since she said on CNN that Hamas was a humanitarian organization.

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svensota

Jul-29-14 8:00 PM

Avoice:

George Soros gave money to the Center for Public Integrity. He did not give millions. NONE of his funds were used for the analysis of the 935 false statements by Bush & Co.

But, trying to shoot the messenger is always a favorite ploy of right-wingers, and you are to be complimented for your feeble attempt.

As to the NYT, I would put them up against your favorite news sources--The New Ulm Journal and Fox News--any time, any day.

Who says so? Oh, just about every journalism school in America.

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svensota

Jul-29-14 7:52 PM

JR:

My source is known and respected, The Center for Public Integrity.

Your source is...well...uh...you have none, other than a giant heaping of sophomoric niggling.

935 false statements, and you can't figure out if Bush and his cabal were lying or not. Once or twice might be a "false statement". But, 935 times is a massive, concerted effort to deceive--in other words, lying purposefully.

The Center for Public Integrity report is overwhelming and conclusive to anyone who has half a brain, which, while it might be a close call, you do.

I'm surprised you haven't used a similar line of "reasoning" with Richard Nixon. No doubt, in JR World, he didn't lie either, he just made "false statements".

You lose...again. Next time, try to have a supportable argument with some depth.

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JReader

Jul-29-14 1:57 PM

So, 935 you say ??? Wow. Sure it wasn't 936 ?

Let's look at the definition of a "false statement" shall we ?

A false statement is a statement that is untrue but not necessarily told to mislead, as a statement given by someone who does not know it is untrue. A lie is a statement that is known to be untrue and is used to mislead.

Sorry, Sven. Your false statement report doesn't pass muster. Bush still didn't lie. You need to try a little harder.

Ok, how about a little remedial exercise for you - let's try this one: "If you like your plan you can keep it". Is this a lie or simply a false statement ?

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Avoice

Jul-29-14 12:58 PM

Svensota, I believe the groups you posted as sources are funded by George Soros which makes it somewhat suspicious in telling the true facts. Quoting the NYT is also a little suspicious in seeing which side of the story is being presented.

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svensota

Jul-29-14 11:20 AM

JR:

Right-o.

"President Bush and his top aids made 935 false statements about the security risk posed by Iraq in the two years following 9/ll according two non profit journalism groups."

"In short, the Bush administration led the nation to war on the basis of erroneous information that it methodically propagated and that culminated in military action against Iraq on 3/19/03", reads an overview of the examination, conducted by the Center for Public Integrity and its affiliated group, the Fund for Independence in Journalism."

According to the study, Bush and seven top officials--including Dick Cheney, Colin Powell and Cpndoleezza Rice--made 935 false statements about Iraq during those two years.

The study says BUSH made 232 false statements about Iraq and former leader Saddam Hussein's possessing weapons of mass destruction.

Parse your question anyway you want, like some nerdy high school debater, but BUSH LIED.

Mission accomplished!

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JReader

Jul-29-14 10:02 AM

Sven:

If Bush lied please provide the proof. Enlighten all of us to where Bush knew that there were no WMD in Iraq but chose to knowingly deceive congress in order to get his authorization to go to war. You will also need to discern between Bush's lie and Bill Clinton's truth when Clinton emphatically stated on numerous occasions Iraq did possess those horrible WMD.

Give it your best shot. You can even quote the National Inquirer to bolster your claim if necessary.

The ball is in your court.

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svensota

Jul-29-14 12:46 AM

JR:

Nice try.

Bush 2 lied to Congress and started a disastrous war. LBJ lied to Congress and started a disastrous war.

The votes in Congress were irrelevant when compared to the big lies sent as truth by both presidents.

How hard is this for you to understand.

You are a Bush denier.

Congratulations. It's quite an honor.

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JReader

Jul-28-14 5:16 PM

Obama, Syria - you lose. But I guess that doesn't count because it really wasn't a war of the boots on the ground variety and he didn't have the cojones to bring it to an actual vote anyway.

You did prove my point though. Congress votes to go to war and the president owns the outcome (either way) even if they didn't lie to get the ball rolling in the first place. If you accept the notion that Bush lied then you must also accept that he was able to dupe the Democrats to do his bidding. That makes the Democrats intellectually inferior to the likes of George W. Bush. Pretty scary when you think about it. The best intellectual minds in America upstaged by a Texas hick. Sven, those people you adore are dumber than Bush... I offer a moment of silence in your honor as your little world comes crashing down around you.

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svensota

Jul-28-14 2:32 PM

JR:

Oh, please.

LBJ led the rush to war. "W" did the same.

The votes in congress didn't mean diddly-squat.

The presidency is the "bully pulpit". Somehow you seem to think that congress is relevant when the drums of war are beat by the executive branch. (By the likes of: Johnson, Rusk. McGeorge Bundy and McNamara. Then: Bush, Cheney, Powell, Rumsfeld and every Neocon foaming at the mouth who happened to drift into D.C.

Since when? What war? Which party? Ever denied a president the votes to wage war?

Name one.

I'm waiting. (Tap. Tap. Tap.)

(Ding.)

You lose.

Pick up a history book.

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JReader

Jul-28-14 10:48 AM

Sven,

You are speaking out of both sides of your mouth - imagine that !!!

Both sides are responsible for these wars unless of course you are not capable enough to see the obvious. Blaming one guy or one party is just another exercise in dumbing down the electorate. Looks like you've repeatedly taken the bait.

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svensota

Jul-27-14 9:54 AM

Oops, that should be "toast of the town".

:>)

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Avoice

Jul-27-14 9:10 AM

Oops, that should be "being run out of town".

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Avoice

Jul-27-14 9:09 AM

Sorry Sven, you had better turn around and look. You are not leading the crowd, you are the one being run of town. ;<)

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svensota

Jul-26-14 11:08 PM

Magpie437:

I'm a red-blooded American veteran, too. (Big deal.)

In the grand scheme of things, Benghazi was an unfortunate hick-up. Try to keep things in perspective, Magpie, and not get too emotional. And, thank you for your compliment. I think I'm #1 all the time. Everyone else seems to agree.

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svensota

Jul-26-14 10:48 PM

JR: Okay. Let's follow your brilliant logic.

Who gets hung--and rightly so--with the Vietnam War? Lyndon Baines Johnson or those dimwitted Republicans who voted for the Gulf of Tonkin Resolution?

The Republicans beat the war drums too, JR. But they were hoodwinked by a president who was a master at hoodwinking. Ipso facto, George W. Doofus took the same devious route.

The Vietnam War was Johnson's doing. Iraq-Bush War 2 was The Decider's doing.

Admit it. You, pal, are the one who has been busted.

Mission accomplished.

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mnagipd437

Jul-24-14 3:20 PM

Sven, Did you just say Benghazi (Big Deal)? Let me be the first red blooded veteran AMERICAN to punch you in the mouth! It was a BIG DEAL! As far as your "Point the finger" campaign... I'll point the finger at you MR Svensota, its the middle one.. saying your number 1 MR! Do us all a favor and move.

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