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Where will it end?

May 29, 2013

To the editor: Where will it end? Is it not enough that nine brilliant Supreme court judticees say it is legal to kill babies even before they draw their first breath and even some after a few......

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(135)

OldJournalCarrier

May-29-13 5:51 AM

Sorry Lerry, but your "God" is a made up ferry tale. A fantasy. And ferry tales have no place in our classrooms or courts or any other public institution.

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whattheh

May-29-13 8:00 AM

I don't think it is going to change. People have left God and the teachings of the bible. People have forgotten that Jesus died for us and now only mock him. I will pray for them all.

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bloozboy

May-29-13 8:25 AM

Dear Lerry and whattheh: You are both correct in what you say. When you read to bulk of comments to letters like these, written by Christians, you will see quite often the hatred for what is ethical and morally right. I've seen more "Christian bashing" in this comment section than anywhere! By the way: (f-a-i-r-y spells fairy. f-e-r-r-y is a boat you see on the water)

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MichaelT

May-29-13 8:28 AM

OJC: You say Larry's God is a "ferry" tale. (I think you mean "fairy." A ferry is a boat.) Can you prove that God does not exist? Do you have scientific evidence to support that claim? If you are honest, you will admit that this is a personal belief, just as Larry's statements are based on his personal belief. The difference is this, that though you have no scientific evidence that God does not exist, Larry can look at the natural world around him, study its marvelous workings, and see there the fingerprints of God. "The heavens declare the glory of God, and the sky shows His handiwork."

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OldJournalCarrier

May-29-13 8:39 AM

MichaelT: Can you prove the Flying Spaghetti Monster monster doesn't exist (do a Google search)? Look around at all the glorious and wonderful creations that the Flying Spaghetti Monster has created! All hail the mighty Flying Spaghetti Monster!

And thanks to everyone with the spelling police for point out my mistake. I get it. You can all stop now.

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japanviking

May-29-13 8:54 AM

The point here is once again not if you believe or do not believe or if have a right to worship. The point is that this Country was not founded on the Christian Faith and the Separation of Church and State is in the Constitution so there will never n be an established "State" religion which is mandating to the citizenry what they can and cannot believe. Believe whatever you wish just do not try to force your religious beliefs or practices on others. If you want a country ruled by religion go live in an Islamic country for a while under strict Sharia Law and you may change your opinion is short order.

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cannonball

May-29-13 9:05 AM

MT; you claim God exists. can you prove it?

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cannonball

May-29-13 9:05 AM

MT; you claim God exists. can you prove it?

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tolerance

May-29-13 9:13 AM

It appears that for Larry life is all gloom and doom. He is an unhappy man. He wants to impose his personal religious beliefs on all of us. What state-endorsed religion does he propose we all follow?

He is free to post the Ten Commandments in his front yard, on his stationery, in his house, in his church. He is free to buy a billboard listing them if he so chooses. Why is it so important they be posted on publicly owned property? Our forefathers did a good job writing our constitution granting us freedom to practice whatever religion, if any, we choose; freedom to voice our opinion; freedom to travel wherever we want and when we want; freedom to live and work as we choose, etc. Now we have the ability to marry whomever we choose. Does gay marriage personally affect Larry? I would guess not so why not live and let live.

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MNcommonsense

May-29-13 9:25 AM

notogop-- Those churches attract people to your community, they also are local business income generators, since they bring above average wages to your community in the form of teacher, professor, administrator, director, professional staff salaries.

You also need to study how all the Lutheran and Catholic families subsidize the New Ulm Public School by generating income through a variety of sources (local property taxes, bus income, etc.), yet do not enter your buildings. Your already struggling public school would face a dire financial crisis if the parochial schools closed their doors and you had to provide classroom space and teachers for them.

Some of the employees at Menards, Kwik Trip, Kraft, 3M and other New Ulm businesses have transferred to this community because of our parochial schools and churches.

But if you do not want a separation of church and state I'm sure we would be happy to set the foundation of a theocracy here in America.

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JReader

May-29-13 9:37 AM

The issue really isn't if God exists or not. The real problem lies with man. Start by asking yourself these questions: Is there a universal God ? Just to clarify, is there one notion of God that all believers subscribe to ? And more importantly, is there one set of of laws and rules that all believers subscribe to ? Even within Christianity can all believers say they have a universal set of beliefs ?

When you have freedom of religion like we do you cannot use only one set of religious values in which to base our laws because people don't all subscribe to the same set of beliefs.

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bloozboy

May-29-13 7:00 PM

OK...Lerry says if we would follow God's laws, this would be a better place to live. I agree. Now, how could any of these Ten Commandments make it a WORSE place to live? You shall have no other Gods but me. You shall not make for yourself any idol, nor bow down to it or worship it. You shall not misuse the name of the Lord your God. You shall remember and keep the Sabbath day holy. Respect your father and mother. You must not kill. You must not commit adultery. You must not steal. You must not give false evidence against your neighbour. You must not be envious of your neighbour's goods. You shall not be envious of his house nor his wife, nor anything that belongs to your neighbour. ...JUST ASKING...

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MichaelT

May-29-13 7:29 PM

japanviking: You say that separation of church and state is in the Constitution. Many people repeat this, but it is not true. The Constitution prohibits the federal (not state or local) gov't from passing laws that establish an official state religion. The Constitution does not require a strict separation of church and state.

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MichaelT

May-29-13 7:33 PM

JR: Although the various religions and denominations do not have complete agreement, there are certain basic principles on which the vast majority agree. Those basics should not be excluded from consideration in the formulation of public policy solely because they have religious underpinnings, and for no other reason.

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MichaelT

May-29-13 7:49 PM

Cannonball: I will respond to your earlier question regarding the existence of God.

If you will go back and read OldJournalCarrier's post, you will see that he/she declares the non-existence of God to be a fact.

The point that I am making is that no one can say with objective certainty that God doesn't exist, because there is nothing to prove that assertion. The most that any atheist can say is that he doesn't BELIEVE that God exists. The non-existence of God is not a scientifically verifiable FACT; it is a matter of personal BELIEF.

So just as theists BELIEVE in the existence of God, atheists BELIEVE that God does not exist. An atheist can say, "I BELIEVE that God does not exist." He may even be certain he is right. But his certainty comes from his faith, not from scientific evidence.

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OldJournalCarrier

May-29-13 8:05 PM

MichaelT: Since you choose to put words in my mouth, show me _exactly_ where I said God does not exist. I said "your God is a fairy tale". My God, the Flying Spaghetti Monster, certainly does exist. I know it with all my heart because other people tell me so (who needs all that scientific mumbo jumbo when I have my faith to rely on). And I said, look around at all the glorious and wonderful creations that he has created. I believe we should start teaching kids as early as possible about the ways of the Flying Spaghetti Monster (some might choose to call it brainwashing, if you will). Our country would be much better off if we did....

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MichaelT

May-29-13 8:21 PM

OJC: I thought we were having a serious discussion. Your last post makes a mockery of the whole issue.

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japanviking

May-29-13 8:52 PM

Michael T how is "prohibiting the federal (not state or local) government from passing any laws that establish an official state religion" not a separation of church and state? While it may not say the exact words "separation of church and state" that is clearly the intent. Also it does not change the point of my post which was NO ONE should be allowed to force their religious beliefs on anyone else and certainly not on an entire populace.

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OldJournalCarrier

May-29-13 9:06 PM

MichaelT: So you're saying your religion is more serious than mine? Is your religion also valid than mine? Because I'm pretty sure all religions are equal under the constitution, are they not?

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MichaelT

May-30-13 12:21 AM

japanviking: The anti-establishment clause of the First Amendment has its roots in the European experience of the founding fathers. They had come from countries where the gov't forced one particular religion on all the people. They wanted each of us to have the liberty to worship or not worship according to the dictates of our own consciences. To ensure this liberty, they prohibited the federal gov't from passing laws that would set up one church over all others as the official state church. At the same time, however, the 1st Amendment does not prohibit the gov't from lending its support to all of the various religious organizations in society.

If you study the history of the original 13 states, you will see that state and local gov'ts did in fact give their support to churches and religious activities, and saw no conflict between that support and their support of the federal Constitution.

The Founding Fathers did not understand the 1st Amendment as a "wall of separation.&

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MichaelT

May-30-13 12:29 AM

OJC: So your god isn't a joke? Then please tell me something about him/her/it. Tell me how you learned about this god. Tell me what this god does for you and what you do for your god. Tell me whether your god exists when you aren't invoking his name to mock the true God online. Did you learn about him from someone else, or did the awareness of this god's existence just pop into your mind one day? What is there about him and convinces you that he is real? Tell me something serious about your god so that I can take him and your comments about him seriously.

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MichaelT

May-30-13 8:08 AM

notogop: Why should Christians be forced to support killing babies through subsidies to Planned Parenthood?

It's the nature of a democratic system that we all end up giving financial support to things we don't personally believe in.

In response to your question about churches and property taxes: Most states have chosen to exempt church properties from property taxes as a way of recognizing the tremendous good they do for the community by instilling good moral values in its citizens and engaging in works of charity toward those in need.

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MichaelT

May-30-13 2:19 PM

notogop: The contribution that any of us makes as individuals pales in comparison with that of the churches, both with respect to the size of the contribution and the number of people influenced or helped. Churches as a group form one of the bedrock institutions on which the wellbeing of society is built.

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tinfoil

May-30-13 4:22 PM

I am a Christian and I believe that there should be a major separation between church and state. Nobody should have a religion or religious beliefs imposed on them. I feel like the author of this letter needs to realize that there is a bigger world out there than Sleepy Eye, and a bigger world out there than the state and the country. Christianity is not the only religion and being a Christian is not the only way for a person to have good morals. Lerry, I'm glad you feel this way, but don't make me share the same beliefs as you.

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svensota

May-30-13 10:04 PM

And, here are a few other bedrock institutions on which the wellbeing of society is built:

Colleges and universities.

The judicial system, including, especially, the Supreme Court.

Labor unions.

The medical community.

Banking and commerce.

Bars and taverns. (Nah, just kidding. Well, maybe not.)

Now, try ranking the above, along with churches, in order of impact and importance...and "wellbeing".

Feel free to add or delete to the list.

Whoever comes up with the correct answer gets a free subscription to the New York Times or The Journal. Your choice!

MIT will be the sole judge and jury.

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