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God’s words, commands are clear

May 15, 2013

To the editor: It is with a heavy heart and genuine love and concern for my fellow citizens that I write this letter today. The Legislature has seen fit to legalize gay marriage in Minnesota....

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(39)

MichaelT

May-23-13 12:43 AM

ZM - Another thought - You asked whether there was a connection between the OK tornado and the fact that many Christians in that state believe that the homosexual lifestyle is immoral. Your question suggests that God may have brought this disaster on them to punish them for holding this belief.

The answer to that question depends on which God you are talking about. If you are talking about the God of the Bible, the answer is no. The God of the Bible shows in no uncertain terms that He considers homosexual behavior to be immorality and worthy of His punishment. The God of the Bible would not punish anyone for believing something that agrees with His own thinking.

If you are talking about ideas about gods other than the God of the Bible, then the answer, in theory, would be yes. Men can and do invent gods, and man-made gods mirror the corrupt thinking of their inventors. But these "gods" have no real essence and therefore are unable to do anything to anyone.

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MichaelT

May-23-13 12:21 AM

(cont...)

For the unbeliever, God allows tragedies such as this in order to shake them out of their complacency. Death may come suddenly and unexpectedly. God would like them to think seriously about the many wrongs by which they have offended the holy God, and about the love and mercy that God has extended to them in providing them a Savior, whose holy life and substitutionary death provides the hope of eternal life.

So you can see that God can and does use the same event to accomplish multiple purposes for a variety of people. The goal for all is that they all eventually be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth.

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MichaelT

May-23-13 12:16 AM

ZM - To understand what God is thinking when He allows disasters such as the OK tornado, you must view things as He does, that is, from the perspective of eternity. What God is interested in, most of all, is that each and every person would end up spending eternity with Him in heaven. God orders the events of our lives with that in mind.

For those who are already part of His spiritual family through faith in Christ, He may use this tragedy to bring them to Himself in heaven through death.

For others who believe in Christ, God allows them to survive in order that they may continue serving as His witnesses here in this world. He uses the tragedy as a way of exercising their faith by putting them in a situation where they need to call out to Him and look to Him for help and sustenance. The tragedy also gives them opportunity to show the world that their God is not just a God who helps in good days, but a God who is able to carry them through evil days as well.

(cont...)

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Zorromcgee

May-21-13 7:51 PM

MT- You said "It may not happen today or tomorrow, but it will happen. The wheels of divine justice turn slowly, but grind exceedingly fine. " I have a serious question and mean no disrespect-is god punishing the people of Oklahoma for how they treat gays?

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MichaelT

May-18-13 10:40 PM

JR: Let me try again to explain. I do agree that my thoughts on social issues are shaped and formed by my religious faith. I have never hidden that fact. However, as I present my views in the political arena, I do not present them from a religious perspective. In other words, I do not tell you or anyone else that we should adopted public policy "A" because it says this or that in the Bible. Instead, I attempt to demonstrate the good that will come from what I am proposing and the evils that are likely to come from what I oppose. In other words, I present a logic- and reason-based argument, not an argument based on words of the Bible.

There are some who would like to exclude from the political discussion anyone who holds religious views of any sort. But the source of one's views really doesn't matter. In America, all of us have the right to express our views, no matter the source.

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EaglesFan

May-18-13 9:11 AM

oops, too many zeros.

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EaglesFan

May-18-13 9:11 AM

I'm disappointed that our legislature was more willing to spend $600,000,000 providing benefits to same-sex couples than investing in our roads, infrastructure, schools and universities. The bonding bill would have created thousands of construction jobs and improved the educational quality of Minnesota. Don't get me wrong, I'm glad that we didn't have a GOP majority who are known to cause plenty of damage of their own, but the DFL certainly has nothing to brag about this year, either.

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LJGibbs

May-17-13 8:49 PM

I have always wondered what Michael T looks like, but couldn't find a photo. Then I looked up the word hypocrite in the dictionary and there it was!!

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JReader

May-17-13 11:39 AM

Michael your last statement is wrought with contradiction. Your views are obviously being directed by your religious beliefs. And you previously stated that to advance the Kingdom of Jesus one does not involve themself in political maneuvering. Then you go on to say that you acted in support of the amendment not for religious reasons but as a concerned citizen and based your motives on nothing more than logic and reason. How could you so easily forsake your religious beliefs when it clearly states to stay clear of political matters if you are to promote the Kingdom of Jesus ?

Either you are not nearly as devout as you claim to be; or you are not being truthful when you state that your motivation for supporting the amendment was based solely on logic and reason. Just where does the foundation for your concern for your fellow citizens truly lie ?

I leave it to you to decide where you are really at.

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MichaelT

May-17-13 11:08 AM

OJC: You make your claim with such an air of assurance. But what do you base this claim on? Your ability to determine whether or not there is an unseen world is no different than mine. Both of us are operating on the basis of faith. You can say that you BELIEVE there is no unseen world, but you cannot say with certainty that there IS no unseen world. You have no scientific way of arriving at that conclusion. The subject does not lend itself to scientific investigation. The closest we can come to investigating the matter scientifically is to discuss it with someone who has had the opportunity to examine the question firsthand. That's what I believe we have recorded in the Bible.

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MichaelT

May-17-13 9:34 AM

JR: I, as a citizen of this state, have a right to express my view of what is best for the welfare of the state. I, as a citizens of this state, have the right to participate in the political process. When I speak and act in accord with my views, I do so for the welfare of the state, not to advance the Kingdom of God.

You will note that as I advanced my views, I did so on the basis of logic and reason. I did not tell others that the state should be guided by the Bible in its policies.

When others attacked various teachings of the Bible, I did explain what the Bible does and does not say on these matters. But I did not use the Bible as the basis for my political arguments.

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JReader

May-17-13 9:13 AM

"Christians do not advance Christ's kingdom by force of arms, or by political maneuvering."

Michael, would this "political maneuvering" you speak of include promoting constitutional amendments to enforce a purely social policy ? It doesn't square up with your notion to advance Christ's Kingdom by employing such tactics.

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OldJournalCarrier

May-17-13 6:06 AM

Listen to yourselves -- arguing over the "Church Militant" and the "Church Triumphant". Hate to break it to you guys, but the the Bible is fiction, 100% pure fiction. Big scary God -- gonna strike people down. Yea sure. Take off your blinders, open your eyes, and *think for yourselves* instead of how other people have told you to think. There's no God coming to "save" us from anything. We all have to learn to get along with each other, respect other people, take care of other people, be tolerant of other people, and take care of the earth (because it's the only one we've got). THAT'S REALITY.

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MichaelT

May-16-13 10:30 PM

MNCommonsense: (cont.) At the same time, however, Christians are not only citizens in the Kingdom of God; they are also citizens of this country. As citizens of this country, they have the right to express their views and bring those views into the political arena. When they do this, they are not acting as "church," but as citizens of this particular earthly nation.

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MichaelT

May-16-13 10:26 PM

MNCommonsense: Your previous post contained some confusing statements about the Church Militant and the Church Triumphant.

As long as we are in this world, we are in the Church Militant. In this life, the Church and individual Christians are under attack by the devil, the world, and our own sinful inner nature. We engage in battle against these foes when we proclaim the word of God to the world and apply it to our own hearts.

The Church Militant does not advance the cause of the Kingdom of God if we use tactics other than the proclamation of God's word. Christians do not advance Christ's kingdom by force of arms, or by political maneuvering.

When we die and are taken by the angels to Abraham's bosom in heaven, we will have passed out of the Church Militant to the Church Triumphant. In heaven, there is no more struggle - only victory and joy.

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JReader

May-16-13 4:32 PM

Question: How many laws of nature would have to be broken for evolution to be a reality?

None.

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Zorromcgee

May-16-13 12:23 PM

MNcommonsense-you might be right-it would not surprise me to see a modern day inquisition. because what you cannot do with logic and reason perhaps you can do with torture.

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MNcommonsense

May-16-13 12:09 PM

The way things are going in Washington, Democratic backlash by the American public maybe just around the corner.

We just saw in Minnesota how quickly political fortunes can change and we know politics will always be a double-edged sword.

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MNcommonsense

May-16-13 12:03 PM

Politics are cyclical, we will sometime in the future again have a Republican governor and a Republican legislature, laws will change, so winners get your licks in now, because history teaches that eventually you will be back licking your wounds.

Also history teaches us that you should never back Christians into a corner. The Church Triumphant can quickly become the Church Militant. Christians over the centuries have demonstrated that they will only turn their cheeks so many times.

Question: How many laws of nature would have to be broken for evolution to be a reality? It begs the question of who really has the most faith?

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MNcommonsense

May-16-13 11:46 AM

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cottoneyejoe

May-15-13 1:31 PM

I guess I just believe the people that wear the white lab coats about where man came from,I think they call it evolution of man!

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cottoneyejoe

May-15-13 1:21 PM

***********youtube****/watch?v=jJSpujHhaGQ......

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JReader

May-15-13 12:26 PM

Michael,

Do you also believe that U.S. troops are killed in battle and school children are slaughtered in mass shootings due to God's devine retribution due to America's stance on homosexuality ?

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Zorromcgee

May-15-13 12:09 PM

MT-Denmark legalized gay marriage in 1989, so far the economy is doing just fine. Bangladesh on the other hand punishes gay marriage with life in prison and has suffered;floods, earthquakes,tornadoes and building collapse. Seems like god is not happy with banning gay marriage.

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OldJournalCarrier

May-15-13 11:34 AM

Gods words -- yea right. More like the words of fairy tales....

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